Old Person Rant: Quiet in the Library
I can’t quite pinpoint when it happened, but people talk in libraries now. A lot. Have you noticed?
When I was a kid — oh, jeez, here we go — no one talked in the library. They whispered. You could actually read a book peacefully in the library. These days, I frequent two different libraries (a college library and a city branch library) and everyone talks — even the librarians. Loudly. I can understand that the whole ‘quiet thing’ is probably a real drag for librarians, and talking probably feels truly liberating after so many years, but what I want to know is this:
- Was some kind of policy passed among librarians on the topic of talking?
- Or was it a Hundredth Monkey kind of situation?
- Does this phenomenon occur overseas?
- Does it vary among different types of libraries?
To answer these questions, I’ve invited a number of professional librarians to come over here and respond. They are small-town librarians, college librarians, high-tech librarians, some American and others from abroad. Let’s see what they have to say…
December 28th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
I’ll be curious to see what they say. Since 2005, I have been living in small towns. And in the small towns I’ve inhabited, the libraries are not only well-appointed and up-to-date, they are also quiet. You may certainly speak, and you don’t *have* to whisper. Still, there is sort of hushed atmosphere.
One of the libraries has a large sign on the front door:
Please Turn Off Your Cellphone
This speaks volumes to me. To me, cellphone usage is part of the reason for a lot of inconsiderate public behavior.
Not all Hundredth Monkey memes are welcome.
December 28th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
You’re right, and whats more there are no more “SILENCE” notices all over libraries any more !
We have a new local library, just relocated and reopened two months ago, they have scanners to receive and check out the books, you put your books into a hole in a machine and it does the work of the librarian for you, if the librarians weren’t there to explain how the machines work to the old people then they’d be out of a job !
Then who would you ask for a book recommendation ?
December 28th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
You’re right. Libraries have changed, full stop. We supply CDs, DVDs, computers, the Internet (and with that gaming, Facebook, instant messaging, etc.) We offer classes and courses and (if you’re lucky) 24/7 access to online databases and books. Some libraries will offer online chat reference, or video demonstrations on how to use our internet catalgoues.
I can boast that our library has a coffee shop. We have listening stations, yoga in the program room, and computer games in the training room. We’re a destination. Afterall, a library is a public space–a community centre. Designed to serve the taxpayers who support it. So why not let those taxpayers determine how it should be used?
Although we do attempt to discourage cell phones with our policies; and although we do provide “quiet study” areas; and although I will stop tweens from running around the computers helping their buddies play RuneScape… The reality is babies cry, toddlers shriek, and the hearing-impared elderly yell book titles they want placed on hold all day long. So be it! The crying, the shrieking, the yelling… It means we’re busy, and people are using the space we’re providing. And that’s what matters. That’s what tells me I’m doing my job.
To quote Monty Python: “You see, I don’t believe that libraries should be drab places where people sit in silence, and that’s been the main reason for our policy of employing wild animals as librarians.”
December 28th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
p.s. The scanners won’t put us out of jobs. The scanners mean we can spend more time serving you, the community, in different ways–more programs, more time for book selection, more reference desk shifts. In the long run, those machines will mean your service will be improved.
December 28th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Well, what a very nice surprise for me on this very snow-y day in the state of where the Green Bay Packers reign supreme. (you will just have to guess where that might be)—-
I had to amble on over here when I spied a new name in my comments window and I’m very glad I did…..Rhea? Not sure, but I think I saw somewhere that that’s the name of the owner of this site? I need to do some serious housecleaning on my blogpage *and* my original site, but I am definitely putting this blogpage on my Blogroll…..
The suburban library in which I practically lived until I got my first computer about 10 years ago was very cozy, comfy and quiet, so this *noise* affect must be fairly new? I don’t go there anymore, I have at least 10 books that have bookmarks in them which means I intend to finish them someday….I bought them thru Literary Guild, Amazon, blah blah. I used to rent VHS movies from our library until DVDs took over which is fine. Don’t need that anymore either. *sigh*
Anyway, didn’t mean to compose an essay, but I also believe the cell phone has hastened the speed at which society’s idiots tossed their [conversational] privacy into the toilet. Even I can’t concentrate on my supermarket shopping when so many people are selecting groceries while yapping on their cell. My question is….WHY are they yapping during a grocery shopping trip?? –And everywhere else? Seems pretty doggone stupid, IMHO.
OK, I’m done now.
December 28th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
I noticed this change in the mid 70’s. The teenagers would go to the library to socialize (I’m sure that when the parents dropped their kids off they thought it was for study). What amazed me was the fact that not once did the librarians ask them to quiet down.
Growing up the library was my favorite place to be. It was quiet with loads of books to get lost in.
Times have certainly changed.
December 28th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
I have a solution, take ear plugs. For me whispering is worse than talking out loud.
I use several libraries, and they all have a hushed atmosphere. It comes down to respect as most things do. Cell phones in a library.. jerk my chain. Actually, cell phones jerk my chain in almost all settings.
December 28th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
Library Lady above is exactly the problem. Somewhere along the line, the library insiders decided that libraries shoud be Fun, Fun Fun! My problem in Dedham isn’t with patrons talking – it’s the workers discussion their grandchildren, last weekend’s shopping trip, the latest movie – it’s endless. I’m in the next room and I can hear them like they’re in front of me. And of course, not a Silence sign in sight. That would inhibit people! Somehow, librarians, like college faculty, never left the Sixties. School administrators gave up on “open classrooms”, but librarians are sticking with noisy reading rooms. I’d fire every one of them and start all over – the culture in the profession isn’t worth saving.
December 28th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
Ya know, I was wondering the same thing! When did all the noise happen? And you are right. Even the librarians talk loudly. It’s more of a market place now. I used to love to sneak into my local library for a few peaceful hours. You could depend on it. No more, I’m sad to say.
I wish a very Happy and healthy New Year to you and yours.
Also, I think I was Jewish this Christmas because the kids had Christmas dinner at their dads and my husband and I ended up at a Japanese restaurant where we were the only ones dining(like in “A Christmas Story), then a movie. Your post made me laugh
December 28th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
My hometown library in the NY suburbs has a coffee shop/cafe downstairs, but has a ton of signs prohibiting cellphones and loud talking. And it’s a new building too, nothing dark and church-like to suggest reverence and silence (as some libraries tend to be),
December 28th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Our local library is pretty quiet, upstairs. Downstairs is where the kids are and it’s pretty loud there, but everyone down there has kids so no one much cares. Our library also has a coffee shop, with talking, but quiet talking. Not whispering, but I’ve never been bugged by loud noise, even with the kids.
December 28th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
As a librarian at a graduate school library I find that most of the time the students flagrantly disregard any quietness regulations, especially so that they may have loud personal conversations on their cellphones and get pissed at us when we ask them to take it outside. The rest of the time, students get pissed at us for not making the rude people be quiet. In a word, we’re powerless.
December 28th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
I was surprised to see that the “no cellphones” policy at a university library was specific to just 2 floors (of 4):
http://flickr.com/photos/andwat/39978446/
December 29th, 2007 at 12:09 am
All I care about is that the library be a place where kids feel welcome. “Fun Fun Fun!” is not necessarily the object, but it can’t hurt for kids to feel like they can find fun at the library.
In my opinion, the video games and DVDs and CDs and cafes and Internet computers, (and, in fact, the large stocks of best sellers for adults) are all just pump primers – bait to get parents to bring their kids into the library so that we librarians can engage those kids, make them feel comfortable in a book-filled environment, and convince them that reading itself is fun.
The decrease in leisure reading among young people is measurable, and has serious consequences in terms of their future achievement (see the recent NEA study on the subject, titled To Read or Not To Read). If I consider myself to have a mission, it is to put as many books as possible into the hands of young people.
And you can’t be talking up a book if you’re busy shushing. Do you know what 5th graders sound like? Their voices are LOUD. They don’t even know it. They’re just so EXCITED all the time! We have friendly ways – a smile and a raised eyebrow, a hand on the shoulder, “Guys! Too loud!” – but it’s got to be pleasant, or those 5th graders will stomp out without checking out a copy of Stargirl.
Teenage mothers wheeling their strollers in? The baby starts to wail? You give them a hand checking out, but you don’t pressure them to leave – these kids – and THEIR kids – are the ones on the knife edge. If these girls don’t read Goodnight Moon to their kids, those babies are more likely to have babies themselves. It’s proven. Goodnight Moon as a baby = increased condom usage as an adolescent.
You guys who deplore the noise in libraries? You guys already read. You’re doing great. We love you guys. I do wish that we had better accomodations for you: i.e. I wish our Quiet Rooms were more than just places for the smelly old guys to sit and fall asleep (at least that’s what they’re like where I live), but until the nation’s reading scores and school systems are back where we’d like them to be, I think that libraries must try our best to make up for the educational shortfall in this country, and in part, that means making sure that our spaces are comfortable and welcoming to the readers most at risk.
All that being said, man, there is this guy – an adult – who comes in with his family regularly, and regularly just HOLLERS across the library. “SAM! WE’RE CHECKING OUT! GET YOUR BOOKS!” And the kid hollers back, “OK DAD!” Every single one of us has approached him – or one of his kids – and said, “Guys! Inside voices, ok?” And he says, “SAM! KEEP YOUR VOICE DOWN! THIS IS A LIBRARY!” Always cracks me up.
And the cell phone thing, well, we offer no quarter. Any conversation longer than a minute or two or louder than necessary, you go outside.
December 29th, 2007 at 12:35 am
I didn’t answer your questions:
Yes, most library systems have noise policies that are more relaxed nowadays.
Overseas, it varies.
The larger the library, the more likely you are to find seriously quiet spaces. However, even the most august academic libraries no longer require silence.
I don’t know about the monkey thing, but I am all for monkeys.
December 29th, 2007 at 5:58 am
Hi Rhea,
Thanks for asking for my input. I started to write a reply, but it got far too long for your blog. I’ve posted it over at mine. I like hearing patron responses to the question. Patrons have as much say in this issue as librarians. Actually, they should have more say, which is basically what I’m getting at in my post.
http://vampirelibrarian.blogspot.com/2007/12/noise-in-libraries.html
December 29th, 2007 at 6:36 am
I don’t like the bookstores being noisy, so it’s no surprise that I want the libraries quiet too. I think of them both as “churches” of sorts and always looked to them as places to learn and as places that gave respite from the world. All this talking sort of breaks the spell of reverence. I wonder what’s next: churches? I’m all for libraries and bookstores thriving, but is talking the reason that they are or are we just talking more and in more places. I think it’s the latter. We talk while driving, while eating, while…well just about while anything…and mostly about inconsequential stuff. Now you’ve done it! I’m on a rant about cell phone use again…
December 29th, 2007 at 7:17 am
Dear Old Person,
Yep, I noticed the same when I lived in the US. Here is Dominica, it is gratifying to go to the library in the afternoon and see every seat filled by a studious and quiet young person.
BTW, Andrew Carnegie gave Dominica its library 100 years ago, I believe the books may date from then as they are so well worn. I wonder if the libraries up there might have books to offer? The schools here are also desperate for young people’s books.
Fellow old person in Dominica,
Jen
December 29th, 2007 at 8:02 am
Our library here, although becoming quite “with it” as far as computers and scanners and programs (Oh My!), still retains a comforting, hushed atmosphere, thankfully.
Ahhh, now I wanna go in and just SIT. It’s been too long since I last crossed that threshold – thanks for the reminder, Rhea!
December 29th, 2007 at 9:17 am
Our library has a somewhat hushed atmosphere. But if a person wants complete silence with their book, they should go home where they can control their surroundings. The whole idea of the library is to get people in there to find something to read or experience or broaden their horizon. Many people can’t afford to buy what they want at Amazon or the local bookstore.
I love it when I’m in the library and hear a kid excited about learning something new!
December 29th, 2007 at 9:36 am
Thank you for inviting me to respond to your entry.
The concern you are expressing about noise in the library is a common complaint in libraries.
First, I’d like to clarify a misunderstanding among most of the replies you have had to your posting. Librarians are not the ones chatting behind the reference desks or showing you how to use the automated check out. Those are library technicians and volunteers who have been hired to serve the public. They are library staff. Librarians are those people who bring you the automated check out machines so that patrons don’t complain about waiting in line. They are the ones who train the reference staff to answer your questions and assist you in finding the right book for you to read. By the way, if we aren’t allowed to discuss the books we have read with each other, how are we to recommend books to you? Librarians are the people who choose materials for the collection, organize that material and display it both in the library catalogue and on the shelves for patrons to find. We are the ones who create reading lists for your use and establish programming so that you can learn how to use the latest technologies.
I am making this clarification because it appears as if there is a general sense that while most people are very well acquainted with libraries, they really don’t understand the overall structure of the library or its purpose.
With respect to the alleged level of noise in libraries, this stems from slow evolution of a library from quiet reading space to a public space to share ideas. Gone are the Carnegie libraries of old where people came into the library, silently, to choose a book and sit down to read for hours. The tradition of the building imposing a sense of mystique and awe as you approach the intimidating reference desk has been replaced with warm, welcoming staff that recommend books, teach classes on technology, encourage book discussion and offer a place to sit down and enjoy an hour or two of reading in a hidden corner.
I don’t believe the noise level of any library has reached a point where most patrons can’t find a place to sit in relative silence and enjoy a book. I am quite confident that the libraries of today offer more services to a broader community. They are not only a place for book lovers, but a place for the community. Book clubs meet to discuss books, children and teens attend to use the computers and collaborate on projects. Many older patrons come for company, and to escape the loneliness at home. They enjoy a good chat, usually covering topics such as their grandchildren and what’s going on in the community. Should we silence them?
We all suffer through growing pains. Libraries are doing there best to serve the public – all of the public. While I thank all of you who use the library, we do need to make new users feel welcome. If we stick to the traditional role of the library, we will drive away new patrons and fade into history. Evidence of that is seen in library closures and shrinking collections.
As a personal note, how many of you took an oath of silence at your work place? Are staff at libraries really expected to sit quietly and wait for the next patron question? Who would want to work in such an oppressive environment?
December 29th, 2007 at 10:26 am
You are definitely right – the noise level in libraries has changed considerably in recent years. Personally, I think it might have something to do with how society has changed.
People feel they can do absolutely anything. One example of this is cell phones – people talk loudly on their cell phones no matter where they are. Personally, I don’t want all of Kroger hearing what I have going on in my life – I rarely talk on my cell phone anywhere but in my car, in my home or some other place where I am alone. I’ve heard someone sitting at a public computer in my library give out her last name, social security number and other personal information like it was nothing…um, hello, do you realize that the person sitting next to you might be capable of identity theft!?!?
I also feel that the level of child discipline has decreased considerably. Parents just aren’t watching their kids and are allowing them to run around, scream for 30 minutes, take large amounts of books off the shelves and basically do whatever they want. It can be frustrating for librarians because if we ask the children to behave, the parents complain that we are telling their children what to do. If we ask the parents to keep an eye on their children, we are criticizing their parenting skills. If we just allow it to happen, we have other patrons complaining about the noise. It’s not just the little kids, either – teens are frequently bussed to the libraries after school, or parents drop them off and allow the library to be more of a day care service with internet access than anything else. While some teens are perfectly content to sit on the computer and mind their own business, others are determined to be obnoxious and disrespectful.
I also think that some librarians have gotten too relaxed about their own talking at the desk. I feel that in many libraries, the employees have become friends, or at least chatty acquaintances, and are holding more and more personal conversations at the public desks in ear shot of the patrons. I, too, am guilty of this! I have taken to moving my personal conversations to a staff only area lately, in order to set a better example for the patrons.
I don’t know if any of my rambling has made any sense, but these are just a few random thoughts on the subject. I also love hearing comments from regular library patrons on what they think about this phenomenon. Great post, Rhea!!! Thanks for inviting me over to comment!
~~ A Real Librarian
December 29th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Library Lady is right on the money.
Society grows and changes, hence so does the library. If the library did not keep up with the times (or attempt to), you would all still be reading books standing up, since books used to be chained to the shelves to prevent theft. Or you could stand in line until kingdom come waiting to tell the librarian your book choices, so she could retrieve them from the back room for you.
Change is inevitable. I don’t know why the library would be exempt. It’s not, after all, a museum to house books. It’s a place for people to find information, both educational and recreational. Our society has largely relaxed the rules of decorum in public places, including the library. Of course, like most change there are pros and cons. Not everyone likes silence, not everyone likes noise. You can’t make all the people happy all the time.
Our library attempts to have “quiet zones” so people who like to study or read in quiet can do so in that area. We also have “no cell phone” signs all around the library. They are ignored for the most part, but they do give us something to point to when we’re chastising the guy with the loud, obnoxious ring tone.
I haven’t worked in libraries abroad, but I have traveled quite a bit and I’ve always noticed that European countries (such as the Czech Republic, Ukraine, Germany) do not tolerate as much noise and commotion in public as the U.S. Boisterous teenage tourists still get lambasted by nearby locals when they get too loud. If their libraries reflect their culture, then you may want to move overseas.
December 29th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
I have been amazed at the level of quiet in our local library. It is a large county library that attracts a lot of young people as well as adults and students from both the high school and the college. Cell phone usage is verboten and if it’s on it must be on vibrate and the call must be taken outside.
We have spent many an hour in there with very few annoyances, much to the staff’s credit, but also there seems to be a general respect for the library here in this small Texas town that simply didn’t exist in Seattle. We stopped using the library while we were in Seattle because it was so disruptive – mostly arrogant teens that refused to put down their cell phones or take their “meeting” outside.
December 29th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
we used to be quieter in our branch, but around 1999 we started getting loud, since the end of the world was near and the Price song and everything, and we’ve been loud ever since. we have a policy about not disturbing others, but mostly, the librarians (me included) are pretty loud.
December 29th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
(sorry, “Prince”)
December 29th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Big City librarian here (been one for 26 years and counting). Libraries have become social centers, gathering places. People are noisier now. Have you noticed the increase of talking in movie theaters, too? I have.
Libraries get more people on the go now, coming from somewhere, heading out somewhere. More and more, people rush in to get what they want (books, videos, dvds, cds, etc) and leave. Everyone’s in a rush and more people are complaining than ever before, especially over the public computers. And when they complain, they’re a lot louder than when they compliment, which still happens occasionally.
Young people have high pitched, loud voices. Some have been known to come in on skateboards. Those make a lot of noise, too, but they can’t ride them inside. Nope.
A lot of older people don’t hear well, so they shout and expect you to shout back to tell them where the public restroom or the fiction section is.
I can’t remember when the library was quiet. Seems every branch I worked in got noisy once school let out.
But then, the world’s a lot noisier now, too. Why would libraries be any different?
December 29th, 2007 at 4:43 pm
Well, you didn’t ask my opinion, but I am a librarian, so here goes. I work in a small library that has no quiet study spaces at all. Every time I check out a patron I feel like I am disturbing people who are browsing books 5 feet from the circulation desk. In our situation, it is literally impossible to have a quiet area because of the layout of the space here.
Having said that, I do wish we could have such a space! It would make patrons happy and keep me from constantly being paranoid that I am bothering someone. I at least try to keep my voice down; many of my colleagues are the loudest ones in the library at any give time! Now THAT bothers me.
I think the previous poster was correct who said that the bigger the library, the more likely it is that they will have space to designate as ‘quiet.’
December 29th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
What I think is that it’s all part of our infotainment culture. That’s why I have turned to my Sony e-book as the source of most of my reading. The idea of reading as a solitary occupation has gotten lost somewhere, but it is done best in the kind of solitude and quiet I can get only at home.
We might just as well give up and understand present day libraries as community centers.
I must say our local library is quiet in the reading room, at any rate, but it is presided over by rather stern ladies of the old school.
December 29th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
I’ve also noticed that there are a lot of babies and children crying and carrying on…
I feel bad. I used to shush my boys all the time.
;(
December 30th, 2007 at 9:35 am
My thoughts on this is that no body gives a crap anymore. Children are not taught to listen and be quiet for the respect of others. Kids these days have full run of everything with no boundaries put in place and no manners to go along with that freedom. That is why so many kids are out of control because they have been given full reign. Sadly to say most of the parents I encounter are just as rude and teach this havoc wreaking way of thinking. The one lady says the Library should be FUN!!!, well, I say, if anyone truely loves books and is there to partake of the joys they can bring, no other stimulous is required.
December 30th, 2007 at 11:06 am
And the same thing has happened at movie theatres. For the last two years or so, I’ve been to very few movies where there wasn’t at least one group of people talking through the whole movie.
Perhaps the blame should be on the fact that the pre-film “please turn off your cell phones during the movie” messages have replace the “please be quiet during the movie” messages.
December 30th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
I want to thank all of the librarians who took the time to come over here and answer my question. So many of you spoke about how the purpose of the library has changed that I guess I am persuaded that the quiet I was used to doesn’t make as much sense now.
December 30th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
libraries? They still exist?
Happy new year Rhea!
December 30th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Congratulations, Rhea, on getting so many different answers/responses. It’s such a simple question, but as my colleagues have shown here, a lot of different factors can contribute to it, though I’m not sure I’m going to contemplate the decline of society as too big a contributing cause. It’s just too depressing to think about.
December 31st, 2007 at 8:26 am
Thanks Vampire!
January 2nd, 2008 at 9:25 am
I am a librarian who has been working in special libraries for years. These libraries tend to be very quiet. However, my neighborhood public library has its moments. Sometimes the noise level is quite high, but for the most part it seems to be quite, even when it is loaded with children.
January 2nd, 2008 at 8:58 pm
I work at a large academic library and we do have a “quiet zone” – a huge Harry Potter-esque room on our 3rd floor. Our building is large enough to also have lots of nooks & crannies ideal for quiet study. The main floor is designated as a collaborative study area. Students are required to work together on many projects & assignments from their professors. Collaborative work is not usually done quietly! The library is a gathering place, too, one of the most popular places on campus. We are thrilled to have had over 700,000 walk-in visits to our library last year.
March 12th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
My son’s been gone to colege awhile and now — so am I. Imagine my surprise at the trendy library coffee-bar, and my even greater shock at all the fraternizing connected with it. From ten til midnite the libarary noise level is absurd. Numerous complaints to the front desk have been ignored just like the quiet signs are. Even the Admin is apathetic about library noise “we serve the needs of all students” they say. This past monday my boomer brain was unable to accept the trendy change that libraries are no longer quiet. I responded to the front desk girls’s apathy by calling her supervisor’s name loudly (since she couldn’t find him). Though right behind a closed office door, Supervisor didn’t notice he was being paged the infantile way — the general noise level was that loud.. Thirty minutes later I typed a disgusted note and loudly handed it to him stating that If the head librarian couldn’t rectify I’d talk to the president or find a lawyer. Party animals applauded as I left, and wasn’t sure if that meant they were glad I was leaving so they could resume — or if they merely were entertained by my distress — or if perhaps some care to have a studious environment after all. Judging that crowd, I doubt it.
Next day the provost responded with “serving the needs of all” which got me to thinking power in numbers… class action suit. Then the first 2 of 2 students I polled had similar experiences of being driven from the library by too much noise to study. One dejectedly said What’s the point of a library anyway? The other suggested I get on FACEBOOK eeeek, but she convinced me this makes more since, is culturally friendly to this student body and might get apathetic Admin’s attention peacefully reclaiming the Library for the studious.
So, I’ll sign onto Facebook in the interests of pressing on through my M.Ed./Initial Teacher Certification. Maybe I’ll try to sell my Classroom Management prof on letting me do my last project on campus management: solving this library crisis. I need to use the library resources after our graduate 5-8pm classes, right during prime time night life there… so either I halt/relocate the night life or I drop my career aspirations. A friend says I need the piece if paper so suing the college isn’t a good idea. I say I don’t need paper I need the education, the research in the library that’s required but unfeasible unless i solve this dilemma. The second undergrad I polled liked my suggestion of changing the “quiet” signs to read “U R N Library: Text-dont-Talk.” I also like the “Mute Floor” suggested here.